Kudzu (Pueraria lobata) was introduced to the United States twenty-five years before the turn of the twentieth century, and is currently found naturalized throughout the southeastern states 125 years later. It is said that there is not a county in the southern US that lacks kudzu. The deep tap root of the kudzu vine can help hold the soil in place and allows the plant to prosper during dry spells, as opposed to corn, whose growth is dependent on sufficient rain fall and irrigation water. If the ethanol corn growers end up in a summer drought, this could definitely hurt ethanol production.
Corn has to be irrigated for growth and uses large quantities of water.
Kudzu was introduced from Japan into the United States in 1876 at the Philadelphia Centennial Exposition, where it was promoted as a forage crop and an ornamental plant. From 1935 to the early 1950s the Soil Conservation Service encouraged farmers in the southeastern United States to plant kudzu to reduce soil erosion as above, and the Civilian Conservation Corps planted it widely for many years.
However, it would soon be discovered that the southeastern US has near-perfect conditions for kudzu to grow out of control — hot, humid summers, frequent rainfall, temperate winters with few hard freezes (kudzu cannot tolerate low freezing temperatures that bring the frost line down through its entire root system, a rare occurrence in this region), and no natural predators. As such, the once-promoted plant was named a pest weed by the United States Department of Agriculture in 1953.
Check this out if you really want to see the spread of kudzu on houses and buildings in the south.
So what does Kudzu have to do with ethanol? Simply, due to the starch (sugar) content, kudzu can be used to replace corn to make ethanol. Will kudzu take the place of food ingredients being used to make ethanol? A resounding “Yes!” is stated by Mr. Doug Mizell, co-founder of Agro*Gas Industries in Cleveland, Tennessee. Mizell and company co-founder, Tom Monahan, have dubbed the kudzu-based-ethanol, “Kudzunol.” Kudzu is an obvious resource: “There’s 7.2 million acres of kudzu in the south that’s absolutely good to no one,” said Mizell. “It grows a foot a day, 60 feet a season and can be harvested twice a year and not even hurt the stand.”
All the kudzu plant is used after harvesting, no part goes wasted.
“All the leftovers from the harvested kudzu are pulled in, and we can break that cellulose down and make ethanol from it,” said Mizell. “It’s not tied to the commodities market, so the price won’t raise and lower in relation to the stock markets.”
Kudzu is a vine and it’s not like hay, wheat or soybeans when harvesting. If Mr. Mizell and Mr. Monahan can work out a fairly economical way to harvest the kudzu, there is plenty of the stuff around during the summer months to harvest. One question, what do these gentlemen use the rest of the year during the late fall and winter months to replace kudzu when it is dormant?
Agro*Gas plans to break ground on an ethanol producing plant in McMinn County or a surrounding county by end of the year and hopefully begin production in 2009.
The plant will be environmentally friendly and funded by private dollars. What? Private dollars and people who want to make a difference without the federal government. We wish these gentlemen the best in their new venture.
View another tv interview on Kudzunol
Kudzu is the kind of stock the U.S. needs to be working with because it is a weed, not a food product that will be diminished from our food supply. The U.S. Congress needs to take a hard look at where the bio-fuels subsidies need to be spent, then this technology which, uses a weed and not a food product, should be considered. I would take a hard look at supporting ethanol as a fuel if this technology stands on its own merit. As I have always said, when you have a commodity product competing with America’s food supply, the production of corn ethanol is not the answer. Go Green Kudzu!
One challenging issue for all the bio-fuel producers and America. If oil keeps rising in price as predicted, it doesn’t matter how great the technology, there will come a time when the energy costs will cost more than the production of the product. What will happen then?
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@Dr. Bob Moore, Algal Biotechnologist: Bob thanks for your comments and your email. Please contact us in the future and let us know how your research is coming along. Wish you great success in your research and look forward to hearing from you.
@Johnny Manley:
Thank you very much for your kind comments. I agree, a lot of people want to ask questions that are not very important to the core information presented. The U.S. Congress has got to re-open the corn ethanol debate and take the kickback moneys for corn ethanol and start pumping some of these dollars into biofuels made via non-food products. This is the reason Chemically Green is supporting the non-corn, non-soy biofuels. The biofuels will need to be produced on a regional basis and sold to local distributors. This process will need to be done in all the states, not just the mid-west to help maintain low shipping costs. How much does it cost to ship a full tanker load of E85 or 10% ethanol/90 gasoline from the mid-west to Atlanta, Georgia? Be sure to watch for the video interview with Doug Mizell: Why Kudzu? which will be posted to CG on
Wednesday, 7/16/08. You will find this a very informal but informative interview. Go Kudzunol and Biofuels.
@Johnny Manley: I also wanted to say that many companies are working on biofuels (no food products used) that are using there own money and might not want government help. My hat if off to these folks and if we can help them in any way to get their message out, please let CG know. We would like to feature their company on a future post.
To Johnny Manley: It’s unfortunate that you have targeted an honest question as some form of anti-environmental stance. To reassure you, I am an avid environmentalist and a PhD researcher quite interested in the applications of non-food derived gas alternatives. Knowing the answers to the cost-burdens of producing ethanol is important, as you can imagine, to creating a realistic technological proposal for governments and industry. Such is why I asked.
@Jean-Paul Gagnon: My apologies if I interpreted your question in the wrong way. Such is the deficiency of this type of forum (no body language or intonation… yes we can use HTML tags and smiley text, but it’s still limited). Perhaps the brevity of your question and the plethora of negative comments and disinformation I have been reading regarding ethanol are to blame as well? Again, my humble apologies.
I too am keenly interested in ways to produce ethanol cleanly and efficiently. Are you focused on mass production (national level like refineries), mid-range (regional or local level) or personal production?
Interesting you point out that your are a PhD researcher, my current MBA class subject is research and statistics. Would you be interested in collaborating via email?
Thanks and best regards.
To Mr. Manley: No worries, I figured that it was just a case of misunderstanding. I should really try to convey my senses a bit better online in forums, etc. It’s hard sometimes when you are really busy and can only drop a quick line.
I am interested primarily in the use of non-food based alternatives to oil on federal levels or integrated micro-managed productions in regional localities. My PhD is in political science, I am researching ways to improve democracy, but my undergraduate had a minor in environmental science and I’m really interested in the future implications of a green economy for developing countries. If Kudzu could be combined with other endemic fuel availabilities in a country then it could definitely help reduce the cost of producing energy and maybe free up some surplus income for people living a subsistence lifestyle. Who knows…it’s all really just to help further the human condition and protect the fascinating natural systems of our world.
I would have to see what your paper is on in terms of collaboration, but I would definitely like to take a look.
Hope your MBA is progressing well,
- Jean-Paul
To Mr. Gagnon: I hear you, time always seems to be the scarcest resource!
Political Science is not one of my fortes. More accurately, I don’t do well in political situations. I tend towards being a technologist and empiricist. I haven’t started a paper yet; however I was considering a dissertation subject for my DBA. It has to do with the overwhelming percentage of companies that are succesful in *spite* of themselves and not because of themselves. See General Motors current events…
Thanks! Good luck in your endeavors as well.
~JMan.
i live in cleveland would like to join your team in producing our couhtry an alternative fuel.please cohtact.
@ J Calvin Withrow: Thanks for the comment. You will have to send me an email with your phone number and address so I can contact you. Please go to the contact page and send me your info so I can contact you.
I just posted a kudzu crock pot chocolate cake with flax meal instead of eggs, and a frosting on the bottom. http://www.kudzus.blogspot.com
@Charlotte Fairchild: Thanks for the update and save me a piece of cake. I have a person that would like to discuss kudzu with you. I will forward your site to them.
I am having trouble finding the enzyme that breaks down kuzdu starch to sugar before I distill it. Anybody know a cheap source ? This is for a school project , not a business .
@bryon: Thanks for your comments.
Bryon, I recommend you contact Doug Mizell at Agro*Gas Industries LLC. You can reach Doug at; 423-716-4357.
Currently, specialty enzymes are being formulated by enzyme companies for biomass such as kudzu. Hope this helps and good luck on your project.
So how do we invest in this?
@Claire Bailey: At what level are you considering investing?
@Claire Bailey: At what level are you considering investing?
If you are interested in investing, Chemically Green suggests you contact Doug Mizell via email:
d.mizell@kudzunol.com
PLease be sure to check out Chemically Green’s latest post on: Kudzunol, will it finally become a reality.
Being published this afternoon.
@ChemicallyGreen.com (Doug) – I have been trying to get some Kudzu to experiment with it here in SE Texas and perhaps other drier areas since it doesn’t require as much water as corn. I am interested in learning more about CG’s interest in Kudzu producers creating raw material for the Kudzunol plant(s). Also, what other non-food ag products can be leveraged. Teh Kroger grovery chain is providing E85 at the pump. I would really like to see the Kudzunol logo repalce the corn cob on those pumps.
Please pardon the typos, I must have gotten excited!
The Kroger grocery chain…
Kudzunol logo replace…
@Kron
I know it’s been over 6 months since you made the comment but I wanted to go ahead and make a reply for the benefit of other readers as well.
What I am referring to is the part where you said
“Are they planning on collecting from the wild, or planting it? If planted it will displace crop production and still affect the food supply.”
While they may start out harvesting from the wild, I’m certain they will begin planning on planting crops for future harvest. In that plan, they could use the farms that the government pays to keep unused so that there isn’t a surplus that throws off the commodity market and therefore kudzo farming would not hurt the market either.
@LCaughman – I would submit that land that is currently not used for farming (marginally suitable or unsuitable) could be utilized for Kudzu as well.
Do you know a source for obtaining live Kudzu samples?
@JManley: thanks for the comments. Currently, kudzu that is already growing on lands will be utilized. There maybe plans in the future for growing kudzu on farms that has marginally or unsuitable land.
How much live samples of kudzu to you need? Please go to the Chemically Green contact page and send me an email with your address and we will get a dialog started.
Google has 2 million sites for kudzu food.
Well, minor setback for transporting Kudzu here:
(but not from here…)
Kudzu is regulated by the Texas Administrative Code, Title 4, Part 1, Chapter 19, Subchapter T, rule 19.3:
“(b) Unless permitted by the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife Code §66.007 or by the Texas Department of Agriculture, a person commits an offense under the Texas Agriculture Code, §71.152, if the person sells, distributes or imports into the state the plants listed in subsection (a) of this section in any live form.
@J.Manley. Thanks for your interest and comments on kudzu ethanol.
Jay, keep up the good work. Where there is a will, there is a way. Is kudzu listed on the list of plants that cannot be imported into the state of Texas?
I like the whole concept of using kudzu for ethanol production. I would like to know if special yeasts are required to ferment the mash. Where does one obtain the recipe and the yeast? I thought that Hydrilla(noxious fresh water weed) should be tried as a free fermentable to make ethanol about 40 years ago but had no way of trying it. I also think that a viable industry could be made producing home stills for ethanol production if that is possible. Inform me please. thanks
@RobertObrochata: Thanks for the comments. There are special yeast and enzymes being developed for fermentation and if you contact one of these companies, they will design an enzyme mixture for you. Currently, we are not using these products for fermentation of the kudzu.
JUST DON’t PLANT IT!!
My wife and I visited Doug Mizell, and we were quite impressed with his foresight and forthrightness. We’re looking forward to his great success — and yes! Doug does recognize the many obstacles. Hat’s off to Doug and his crew!!
@Chemically Green: Yes, Kudzu cannot be imported (sold, distributed, or imported) “into the state.” However, I have found that there are native stands in the Columbus, Colorado River area. The quandary I am considering now is that Kudzu is “cow-friendly”, but what about Jatropha Curcas? the seeds are poisonous to humans, but what about bovines? Farmers may consider raising Kudzu in cow pastures, but if the cows must be segregated from the Jatropha we have a different set of issues.
Also, there is a biodiesel refinery here in Houston using a soy/corn blend and offering it at the pump for $2.39/gallon. “Houston Biodiesel educates about, retails, wholesales, and promotes the use of clean, renewable, non-toxic, domestically produced biodiesel in diesel engines. We are NOT a producer! We sell quality biodiesel that exceeds (ASTM) D-6751 specifications.” Houstonbiodiesel.com
I feel more engines are convertible to ethanol than diesel and provide better performance characteristics. However, as biodiesel becomes more available, more diesels may be developed for smaller vehicles.
@JManley: Thanks for your follow up comments and interest in biofuels. Jatropha is being grown on wastelands and land that would not support corn or other substrates for fuels and I don’t think farmers would be running cattle in Jatropha growing areas.
What are exactly your plans for producing a biofuel in your area?
Jatropha, if started from seeds, will take 2-3 years to produce fruit. Jatropha is currently being evaluated and grown in your state. I do not know the companies.
Biodiesel is being processed to take the place of conventional petroleum diesel.
It is true, more cars are getting flex fuel engines for ethanol/gasoline blends, but older cars will not be able to run E85 ethanol. Another problem with E85 is availability of fuel and pricing in many areas. I recently purchased gas in South Carolina and there was an E85 pump and the price was the same for gas vs E85, $1.63/gallon. Most people would buy the gasoline with 10% ethanol blended in than buy the E85 because of mileage per gallon. Ethanol’s mpg is not so good.
Also, Americans are not buying the small cars. In December suvs and pickup trucks were the number one selling vehicles in the U.S. Sales of hybrids and small cars dropped like a rock. Toyota Prius sales were down 48% and there is a glut of imported cars setting in the U.S. ports. Check out the current CG post about this subject.
Also, if gas prices continue to stay under $2.00/gallon, most people are going to buy gasoline because of the cost and the current economic situation and 3 more ethanol plants were shut down this week and one plant put in mothballs.
Hope this information has been helpful and if CG can be of any further service, please contact us.
@Chemically Green: You’re welcome! Thank you for your pioneering efforts as well.
“Jatropha is being grown on wastelands and land that would not support corn or other substrates for fuels and I don’t think farmers would be running cattle in Jatropha growing areas. What are exactly your plans for producing a biofuel in your area?”
Land that is essentially unused or dormant could support Jatropha “orchards” providing the lessor with alternative income and the lessee biofuel feedstocks. Same idea with Kudzu.
” but older cars will not be able to run E85 ethanol.”
I respectfully disagree, I am running a 1968 427cid Chevrolet on Ethanol and Drag racers have been using methanol for decades. Complete fuel systems are available to convert any gasoline vehicle ever built to safely and reliably run ethanol. They are simply not “EPA” (Big Oil) approved for retrofit.
You do have a valid point that older fuel system seals, fuel pump & carburetor diaphragms and other natural rubber parts are not compatible and must be upgraded, like the FlexFuel vehicles are now using from the factory. The fuel system must also be recalibrated for the 40% increase in fuel volume required by ethanol which as you point out, reduces the mileage significantly and ergo, the cost savings.
However, there is research on an enrichment “gas” that increases the efficiency of the ethanol about 40%. Now we are competitive with gasoline again. Actually, I can run the 11.25:1 CR in my big block with supercharging on ethanol (105 octane) where I can’t with today’s poor-grade, dirty gasoline (octane 93).
A complete ethanol fuel system could cost as little as:
Tank adapter – $75.00
Braided fuel lines and fittings – $200.00
Alcohol Fuel Pump – $100.00
Ethanol calibrated carburetor – $700.00
Upgrade to Digital Fuel Injection – ~$3,500.00 more but you get the ability to switch between ethanol and gasoline (Flex). “Gas” enrichment systems to improve efficiency add about another $100 to $200.
I am researching a market for vehicles that dispense with expensive, non-functional features such as interior and exterior trim plastics, delicate upholstery and other expensive, luxury appointments like air bags and backup cameras. Build the car like a race vehicle, a spartan but highly-effective, lightweight, energy-absorbing chassis with a green-powered combustion engine. No, it’s not for the Lexus and Mercedes crowd. It’s for people who need to get from “A” to “B” inexpensively and in some cases, very quickly, using renewable, eco-friendly fuels and want to pay cash for a vehicle, instead of 5 to 6 years of interest.
Envision a hybrid between a Harley Sportster or a Jeep, and an AC Cobra or a Wrightspeed Electric with a blown alcohol, “gas”-enriched or a biodiesel engine instead of electric power.
Thanks for your support!
I would like to know how to get started in making it.And can you make diesel out of it.
@Brian Nolan: Which “it” are you referring to Brian? Kudzunol or biodiesel. Kudzunol is ethanol made from Kudzu. Of course there are other feedstocks for ethanol, e.g. corn.
Biodiesel has a variety of feedstocks as well including used food fryer grease (ewww!), rapeseed, oil palm, and jatropha curcas.
You cannot make biodiesel out of ethanol, but you can make biodiesel using ethanol. Diesel engines run extremely high compression and the fuel is far less volatile in it’s atmospheric state than gasoline or ethanol. [Bio]Diesel is essentially an oil pressurized (injectors) and compressed (cylinders) to the point of combustion. Ignition is accomplished and controlled through injector timing.
Ethanol, methanol, gasoline, etc. are very aromatic and volatile, require far less compression, and a timed spark (ignition). Ethanol and methanol perform better with high compression (11:1 and higher) and can even be run in supercharged engines with those compression ratios (E.g. blown, alcohol drag racers). The downside is that it takes 40% more alcohol by volume than gasoline. However, there is research to provide a “gas” enrichment to overcome that.
There are a lot of online sites providing instructions on distilling ethanol from feedstocks (similar to bootlegging stills). Biodiesel is made by pressing the feedstock (E.g. jatropha seeds) and “transesterification.”
Biodiesel production is the act of producing the biofuel, biodiesel, through either transesterification or alcoholysis. The process involves reacting vegetable oils or animal fats catalytically with a short-chain aliphatic alcohols (typically methanol or ethanol).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel_production
Interesting… yes?
@Brian Nolan: Thanks for your questions and comments.
J Manley sent you information on making ethanol and biodiesel.
Are you looking to make ethanol or if you are looking to make biodiesel, there are several companies making biodiesel in our area from soy bean oil or they are buying methyl soyate and making biodiesel from this product.
What quantities are you taking about and are you mainly interested in biodiesel?
Chemically Green has had a lot of people call about making biodiesel but once these folks looked into the process, they decided costs would be to high to justify making. If you buy raw materials in small quantities, this will affect your price due to higher raw material costs. Also, there are issues with by products that are produced during the process and there are hazardous chemicals involved with making the biodiesel that would require EPA hazmat training to use these chemicals. Please let CG know if we can be of any further assistance and you need any actual starting formulations.
@JManley: Thanks again for all your comments. I was pretty sure that kudzu would not be allowed in your state.
I don’t think the average car driver would want to make an ethanol conversion on their older cars and where would they buy the ethanol or E85? There are about 24 E85 service stations in Georgia and Tennessee and driving 85-120 miles (from Dalton, Ga.) to purchase E85 doesn’t warrant the ride and the cost.
Please notice the distribution map of kudzu at the top of this post. Kudzu is growing in the eastern part of the Texas.
@ Chem Green: You’re welcome! I find this topic fascinating. The DoA doesn’t allow “import” of Kudzu from other states; but, I found no legislation about transplanting and cultivating “intrastate.” I am researching a “hazardous” permit type of license to cultivate it quasi-commercially.
True, the average driver “today” would probably not want to convert; however, the near future may present a new market of economy/performance drivers AND it can be used to process biodiesel.
We can get E85 at virutally every Kroger (grocery) store in the Houston area. It’s as easy to get as gasoline and easier than methanol or race gas.
Yes, I found a tourist site that described Kudzu stands in Columbus, Texas which is about 70 miles *west* of Houston. It’s probably everywhere if I can just get out and explore.
@JManley: Thanks again for your comments and input. How much is E85 selling for in your state?
The US might have to start changing over older cars to burn ethanol, but again this might be slow in becoming a fact.
Great idea about intrastate growing of kudzu and you are already checking into this.
I found out today that oil filled tankers are staying at sea instead of bringing oil to the US ports. They are waiting for the price of oil to increase.
Again, America has started with bio fuels, but where will the search end up? Ethanol is not the answer for the long term, even when using cellulose as the biomass.
Time will tell
@ChemicallyGreen: Again, you’re very welcome! It’s fascinating stuff!… at least to us.
Typically the price/gal for E85 trails regular gas at about 75%. When one factors in the 40% additional volume requirement, E85 is theoretically more expensive. However, I don’t have empirical data from anyone driving a flex fuel vehicle comparing actual mileage of E10 versus E85. We know it’s different, but is it actually approaching the theoretical 40% difference? I can’t afford to build or buy a Digital Fuel Injection system capable of switching on the fly; however, I may be able to use two carbs, one engine and compare 93 octane E10 with E85 by physically switching carbs. Kludgy, but reasonably valid.
RE: Tankers
That’s what I believe will be the hardest part of green fuels, the ability of Big Oil to manipulate the price and impose propaganda and price wars until they can take control of the green market; but, that’s a different topic.
RE: Biofuels toehold
My interest started with an economical racing fuel. High Octane Racing gas is $6.00+ per gallon and so is methanol. Home brewed ethanol is 105 octane and around $2 a gallon done efficiently? Cheap racing. My point being there’s definitely a niche market for it; but I agree, it will probably be obsoleted in the mainstream by electric power and biodiesel because neither of which are “performance-oriented” which is considered synonymous with “green.” True, there are performance diesels, but they are extremely huge (mostly trucks).
I’m thinking a small lightweight chassis with a “consumer-class” diesel like a V-6 Jeep or Mercedes type, with turbo or supercharging and perhaps “gas” enrichment.
The Kudzunol would still be needed to help in the transesterification process of the biodiesel and of course… weekend racing.
The real question is will Americans cotton to the idea of a biodiesel processor in the garage or backyard to fuel the family fleet? There are processors on the market that produce up to 80 gallons a day, you just need the feedstock. Ok, a few acres for Jatropha and Kudzu and perhaps one can return to the Jeffersonian freedom ideals of reducing dependence on tyrants (greedy, manipulating capitalists [Big Oil, OPEC,], credit [Big Banking] and employers) while making our air cleaner.
A new Independence Day?
@JManley Thanks again for the comments. We are going to have to stop meeting like this. People are talking.
J., how many Americans have $10,000 to fork out for a 80 gallon ethanol system? I have seen the system. Some people will buy it but gas prices will have to get back to $4.00/gallon range to help pay for the initial investment.There are other complete ethanol distillation systems, but very expensive. Since, I am in the chemical business, I can make my own ethanol with our equipment, but a lot of hoops to go through and I would have to get permits from the feds to do so.
Heck, the cars you are talking about are being produced by Ford in the EU, but the autos cannot meet current US emission requirements. If the EU is so eat up about reducing their carbon footprint(which they are having a difficult time meeting original Kyoto requirements), then maybe they are smarter than we are.
Seems the EU is buying these cars. Hey, I am 100% for getting off of oil and having alternative fuels. Ethanol will be around but its just a band aid. Will cellulose ethanol be the answer, have to wait and see. Lot of research going on but can the distillers get enough biomass to meet our requirements. Don’t think so. So, lots of different processes will have to come on stream if we are to cut oil use dramatically in the Us.
A niche market for ethanol used in race cars. Get’er’done, but buy a lot of product liability insurance if you sell to other racers. I am just saying when you look into a venture like making your own ethanol is one thing, but trying to break into a niche market by selling this product, its a whole different ballgame.
@JManley: Thanks again and good luck on your business ventures. At least you are asking questions and I have enjoyed your emails.
What will this stuf do to the car engines or the gas lines or componants? I understand that ethanol is eating up the gas lines on engines, especilly on small engines, no one mentioned it before starting to make it,I was using it untill I had to replace the fuel lines on my lawn mower, weed eater, chain saw,garden tiller,and my wood spliter. Please tell me how safe this stuff is and if it will harm any thing and what kind of millage would you get on cars using it, I lost about 4-5 miles a gal on the ethanol.
Truly
Joe
@Joe Laney: Thanks for your comments. Ethanol will be harmful to older lawnmower engines and automobiles that do not have flex fuel engines.
The gasoline blends which are currently being sold currently contain 10% ethanol and seem to be o.k. to use in any engine. The E85 blends (85% ethanol will prove to be harmful to non flex fuel engines).
If you will check out my post on: Ethanol is a Hazardous Chemical, I have a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) listed that spells out the hazards of ethanol. Ethanol is a flammable liquid and is a lot harder to extinguish than gasoline if a fire occurs.
Using ethanol as a fuel, you will get less gas mileage. This is a proven fact.
Ethanol will absorb moisture out of the air and when combined with moisture forms a weak acid and this is causing the corrosion in your gas lines and will affect your auto engine if not a flex fuel model.
I tried to comment, but got an error…
@Joe Laney: Hi Joe, what happens when you pour gasoline into some cheap, plastic container? It melts right before your eyes. Gasoline is well known for it volatility dangers and carcinogenic potential.
Now, take the rubbing alcohol you have under the bathroom sink (the stuff you use on cotton balls to clean or disinfect a wound perhaps or pour in your kids ears to prevent infections) and pour it on natural rubber. It does the exact same thing as the gas did on the cheap plastic, no difference. Ethanol is as safe as the stuff you put in your ears or on scratches, disinfect before an injection at the doctor. It just dissolves natural rubber, no biggie; unless you have natural rubber o-rings or lines in your fuel system (mowers, edgers, et al). Use viton instead.
Ethanol, methanol (or even isopropyl) will do absolutely nothing to the fuel lines (steel or aluminum) in the car in spite of the propaganda you may have read. The problem with steel lines is that alcohol (ethanol, methanol, isopropyl, et al) are HYGROSCOPIC, meaning they are constantly absorbing or attracting moisture from the air. IF you don’t have a sealed fuel system, you get lots of water in the system and RUST and or aluminum oxidation inside the steel lines and carburetor or fuel injection components. The fuel system must be a closed system with alcohols. Drag racers use very small quantities of methanol from sealed containers for racing.
Of course you lost “mileage”. It takes 40% more alcohol by volume than gasoline on the same engine. This is the FlexFuel propaganda. If and engine is tuned for gasoline and you adjust ONLY the volume, you will use 40% more ethanol than gas. The CORRECT method is to optimize the engine for alcohol by increasing the static and/or dynamic compression ratios.
To increase static compression you must physically modify the engine ( combinations of pistons, crankshaft, rods, heads, etc. not all would have to be changed). Dynamic compression can be changed by aftermarket, bolt-on superchargers or turbochargers.
Alcohol loves compression and produces FAR MORE energy when properly “squeezed.” Check out any drag races and look for Blown Top Alcohol class cars. FlexFuel was an effort to discredit ethanol because of this (IMHO).
Also there is a method of “gas” enrichment to overcome this 40% hickey on mileage; however, the gas has a detrimental effect on hardened steel during combustion (change materials, aluminum, alloy…) and more research is needed to determine how it reacts to high-compression engines. Also, it confuses the computer and it thinks the engine is running too lean so it fattens the mixture ruining the mileage. A better computer is required as well or a custom injection system. Most of this is beyond the scope of what “normal” folks want to or can do. However, motorsports enthusiasts have been doing it for years. Hey, isn’t that how all this got started anyway?
Hope this helps.
~Johnny.
J Manley, if you still are monitoring this site, write me at milescaughey@hotmail.com.
@Miles: Thanks for your comment. Miles, if Chemically Green can be of any assistance for you, please contact us. Just following up.
Mr Manley and ALL others,
I just stumbled on this site looking for Fuel Injection info for my project car. While in Iraq in 2006 I figured I’d use the 105 octane in E-85 and build the cheapest high compression engine I could. I picked an ole 400 small block Chevy, bored out 60 thous, put in flat top pistons, thin head gaskets, and shaved some small 58cc heads with small vales with a RV pulling cam. It has a 500 cfm 4412 Holley 2bl jetted for E-85, and a high compression geared starter.
It starts real easy even though it has a cranking compression rate of 270 psi at 500 ft and 50 degrees Fahrenheit. I built this for economy, not speed.
It idles great and runs even better. It is in a 79 Trans Am and has a Muncie four speed. I only got to run 2 mpg tests before getting sent to Afghanistan.
It got 18 mpgs and I only timed the engine by turning the distributor by ear and checking it by performance.
When I get back to Kentucky I plan on putting in a T5 world class 5 speed with overdrive, variable timing MSD system to go with the MSD HEI distributor, and make some Mickey mouse way to heat up the intake manifold. After that I plan on dropping it in a 62 Chevy II 2dr I got that weighs in at 2600 instead of 3800 that my Trans Am weighs. Also, hopefully it’ll keep me from going to jail for modifying the pollution control stuff. I hope to get at least 30 mps.
After this, I plan on installing a Multi-Port or maybe a Throttle body FI to increase fuel efficiency and am seeking info or suggestions. I have a small farm with cattle and plan to make my own ethanol and feed the mash to my cows.
Any suggestions to increase efficiency of this engine in my quest for America to be Energy Independent would be highly appreciated. Also, as a back yard shade tree mechanic willing to share what little info I done figured out so far.
Thanks, Miles Caughey milescaughey@hotmail.